What Building Owners Get Wrong About Elevators… That May Cost Millions: LIVE BROADCAST
In this live episode, I met with Matt Jackson and Jose Perez from Blackstone Elevator Consulting, a rapidly growing firm focused on helping building owners, property managers, investors navigate some of the most complex and expensive challenges in vertical transportation. Matt, the company’s founder, brings more than 16 years of experience in elevator consulting, modernization planning, maintenance evaluation and capital planning with a strong reputation for helping clients reduce risk and make smarter long-term decisions. Joining him is Jose Perez, regional vice president for the Midwest, whose background spans consulting, modernization, planning, maintenance audits, service agreements, and equipment evaluations with experience at firms including VDA, Schindler, TK, and Urban Elevator. We discussed how building owners can avoid costly mistakes in elevator management and implement creative solutions.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Elevator Consulting and Industry Challenges
01:27 Market Trends and Modernization Insights
04:43 Understanding Deferred Maintenance and Cost Implications
10:13 Navigating Elevator Modernization Estimates
12:44 Creative Solutions in Elevator Upgrades
20:12 Building Strong Contractor Relationships
29:42 The Importance of Communication in Contractor Relationships
34:01 The Importance of Communication and Relationships
35:28 Budgeting Strategies in the Elevator Industry
37:29 Navigating Elevator Service Contracts
39:39 Building Trust with Contractors
42:18 Creating Fair Contracts for All Parties
45:40 The Role of Consultants in the Industry
48:06 Common Mistakes Made by Building Owners
49:42 Understanding Contract Expectations
53:16 Misconceptions About Modernization
55:36 Rapid Fire Insights on the Industry
Resources:
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Transcript:
Matt Allred (00:00)
Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast. Appreciate you being here for this live stream. Today’s guests are Matt Jackson and Jose Perez from Blackstone Elevator Consulting, a rapidly growing firm focused on helping building owners, property managers, investors navigate some of the most complex and expensive challenges in vertical transportation. Matt, the company’s founder, brings more than 16 years of experience in elevator consulting, modernization planning.
Maintenance evaluation and capital planning with a strong reputation for helping clients reduce risk and make smarter long-term decisions. Joining him is Jose Perez, regional vice president for the Midwest, whose background spans consulting, modernization, planning, maintenance audits, service agreements, and equipment evaluations with experience at firms including VDA, Schindler, TK, and Urban Elevator. Matt and Jose, welcome to the show.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (00:57)
Thanks for having us, Matt.
Jose Perez (00:58)
Thanks, Matt. Fun to be here.
Matt Allred (00:58)
Yeah, no, I’m I’m excited.
It’s good to have you here with me today. ⁓ obviously today we’re gonna be talking about what building owners get wrong about elevators that may end up costing them millions of dollars. We’re gonna touch on modernization exposure, diverted maintenance, elevator contractor relationship breakdown, and even service contracts a little bit. Won’t dig deep into that, but ⁓ a first thing I wanna do is kind of hit a couple elevator industry headlines that that caught my attention.
⁓ it kind of feels like the elevator industry in some ways is is entering a pressure cooker moment. So for example, headline number one from Allied Market Research says that elevator modernization market could reach up to 20 plus billion by 2030. And that’s a big number, of course. But when I looked it up, it says that the the current, well, the the 2020 ⁓ market is 7.8 billion. So that’s that’s huge from you know, if it was
Or only 19 going up to 20, that’s that’s one thing. But from 7.8 to 20 is huge. And then I want to hit this second headline here that ⁓ commercial real estate owners are facing massive deferred infrastructure costs. And this is from from Colliers. ⁓ so just want to bounce those two off you and ⁓ get your thoughts. What ⁓ what comes to mind as you guys hear those?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (02:20)
⁓ you know, so the the market ⁓ cap for for modernization, without a doubt, I I believe that headline through and through. ⁓ and and I think there’s a number of reasons for that, but but I think ⁓ the the overarching ⁓ component is that the equipment, you know, we used to go and modernize
equipment that was installed in the sixties and seventies. I was modernizing those well quite frankly, still today. The but I’m all at the same time we’re modernizing equipment that was either installed or previously modernized in as late as the early two thousands and sometimes even more recent than that. So a lot of it is ⁓ you know, let’s face it, it’s technology driven. you know
circuit boards, everything going microprocessor based, there’s a lot of technology improvements in or enhancements. So you start to hear the term obsolescence a lot more ⁓ a lot earlier in the in the elevator life cycle.
Matt Allred (03:25)
Sure, for sure. Yeah. Jose, what are your thoughts about ⁓ you know, just talk about deferred infrastructure costs? Do you see that happening?
Jose Perez (03:34)
Yeah, you know, I think the short answer is yes, right. ⁓ obviously every every building and every management firm has their different style, but at the end of the day, I would say more so than not. And there’s different reasons to that, right? it at the end of the day ⁓ our goal and our role is not here to judge, right? I think the the the goal of any good consultant is to be objective and to just lay out the facts, right? And
I think the approach we like to take is hey, we’re your we’re your partner. We’re here to we’re gonna give you the truth, regardless if it’s good, bad, or indifferent, right? And then hopefully work with you as your partner to what is the goal for this asset and how can we help navigate ⁓ you know within the kind f confines of that goal, right?
Matt Allred (04:22)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well let’s let’s start with, you know, talking a little bit about how owners inherit expensive problems. Matt, you told me a a story about a a company, I guess an investment firm perhaps. They they had estimated seven million in modernization expense. And Blackstone comes in and says, No, it’s more like twenty million. Talk talk through that just a little bit.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (04:43)
Yeah, so so not not uncommon, right? ⁓ as as building assets are trading, right? ⁓ new new owners are coming in to to purchase buildings. Certainly they, you know, most of the time there’s some level of due diligence that’s taking place. I think it’s in some ways it’s more apparent when it’s the the ⁓ k other areas
Matt Allred (04:50)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (05:11)
other outside of elevators, right? You walk into a building lobby, hey, do we need to renovate this? Because it’s either outdated or other. When when you start talking about elevators, ⁓ in the in the specific example that that you and I kind of explored, this was an owner that had received g intel from the selling the seller that hey look, we know that modernization’s going to need to take place.
we’ve kind of built that into the structure of this this property and they had allocated somewhere in the neighborhood of seven million dollars for that. So the the purchaser had reached out and I just said, you know look, I haven’t even stepped foot on the building on site yet, but give me give me the overview. So we we did that and and as we’re looking through it I’m
It just wasn’t adding up, right? So there’s a few reasons for that. One, certainly costs have significantly increased. ⁓ so I think there was a component of that. But then there was also maybe they don’t know what they don’t know. ⁓ so so we started looking at this and and I I said, you know, guys, looking at the
Estimate that’s built into the plan versus what I’m seeing just from an equipment listing standpoint, there’s a huge gap. So we ended up going to the site, doing that more thorough evaluation, and came up came back with that much almost well more than double what their original estimate was. It did allow them to go back during that due diligence phase to kind of renegotiate. And in the kind of the the cool
end of that was they were still successful in making the transaction happen, but then we we helped them through the modernization phase w shortly after closing and numbers came back exact within the range of what exactly what we told them and and where
We’ve been involved in situations like that in the past and it’s become the shock. And now they don’t know how to do it because it’s wasn’t built into their financial plan. Conversely, this this property was prepared, negotiated appropriately, closed on the the transaction, and now they’re moving forward immediately with the modernization that was well deserved. and so, you know, just doing that
Matt Allred (07:40)
Sure, sure.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (07:44)
that little bit of additional legwork on the front end saved them out of pocket not only the millions of dollars, but also the the more likely scenario is they wouldn’t have been able to do the modernization for another ten years. And now they would have had more downtime tennis tenant satisfaction, renewals, all of those things that really play into the the full life cycle there.
Matt Allred (08:12)
For sure, for sure. Yeah. Is this a situation where, you know, maybe deferred maintenance was going on and it’s like, hey, we don’t want to pay that. Let’s just sell it and, you know, kind of kind of see if we can recoup.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (08:24)
You know, it it’s interesting and I I don’t know the answer to this. interestingly enough, the the specifi and this this could go down a whole different rabbit hole, but ⁓ the the property had been maintained by a mechan the same mechanic for a number of years. And I’m gonna tell you right now that it was it is it is still the best look well best maintained job I have ever stepped foot on.
So quite frankly, the mechanic bought this, the previous owner, an additional 10 to 15 years of operation just because somebody that took real pride in what they did for a living. ⁓ so you know, at first pass, I’m sure any buyer that walked into that building looked at it and said, my gosh, this thing is impeccable. It’s in great condition. We probably don’t need to invest. The reason that they have to invest is is simply
technological obsolescence and you know it’s past its significantly past its useful life. So, you know, I think there were I’m not sure if anybody was trying to get one passed on on anybody else, but the optics were there. But it that’s where you need to have somebody that’s gonna dive deeper, share the real, the real message so that you have a very clear picture when you’re going going into a transaction of this size.
Matt Allred (09:49)
Sure, sure. Well yeah, like I say, it’s not ⁓ I I have no way of knowing the the intent, but but it may be that yeah, we we don’t want to deal with it and and then you know, who knows? Maybe it’s like a an old automobile. Yeah, I know it needs a new transmission, but if I can just, you know, get it out the door. Jose, what’s your experience? I don’t know if you’ve worked with this customer or if you’re seeing some of the same same things come up.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (10:04)
Yeah. So
Jose Perez (10:14)
Yeah, I mean,
y you know, I I’m, you know, pri you had kind of mentioned it earlier, Matt, but I I’m based out of Chicago and and I kind of run the Midwest operation, right? So I can speak a lot more to to the Midwest market, if you will, right? But at the end of the day, every every job and every building is different. I mentioned that, right? I think what you get a lot of, and Matt mentioned this earlier, but you kinda it pricing A, yeah, since COVID has gone up like significantly. Like to to the point where like
Matt Allred (10:31)
Right.
Jose Perez (10:43)
today, you know, it’s just like wow, what what a certain dollar amount bought you five, six years ago does not get you anywhere near to that now, right? So that’s that’s pretty I mean that’s a whole nother economic rabbit hole we can go down right. But I think that is something to recognize. But a lot I think a lot of it too is you have ⁓ not every modernization project or modernization scope is created equal, right?
So you’ll have ⁓ hey, I was I was planning on insert number, I was planning on a million dollars. Well, y yeah, that is a a number and we can get to that, but that excludes all these components and ⁓ it kind of comes down to that conversation, right? Of what’s the long-term plan for this asset? You holding for 10, 15 years? No? Okay, then yeah, maybe let’s go that route. Or hey, you’re you’re planning to hold for a while, then I I candidly I don’t think that’s the best move for us.
knowing this type of equipment and things like that. So I think it’s it’s a lot of that. You have ⁓ every contractor’s gonna bid a job differently. And that’s kind of where we come in to kind of set the the playing field, if you will, just level. Hey, this is what you need based on our conversation of what the plan is and we’ll help you navigate and ⁓ ideally get you the best deal that we can, right? ⁓
Matt Allred (12:01)
Yeah, yeah.
When it and it sounds like you were able to, you know, they they called you in early enough. Have you have you seen situations where maybe they went ahead and bought it and it’s like, ⁓ wow. What do you do in that situation?
Jose Perez (12:15)
Yeah, yeah, we have seen it and and you know it’s it’s tough. I guess one thing that I think ⁓ I pride our our group on is we we kind of have this model is just like, hey, just tell the truth and and I as I mentioned earlier, be be objective, right? But at the same time, be creative, right? So I think any good partner, ⁓ whether it’s on the contractor side, consulting ten, whatever, you have to be creative, right? It it should not ever be, hey
This is the fix and this is the only fix. And we can’t do anything until you sign here. ⁓ more often than than not, there’s always other avenues you can investigate. It’s just candidly, it’s just doing the work, right? And and having the commitment from the your other partners and vendors to want to do that work, right? ⁓ and at the same time communicating all that that we’re doing on the back end to the end user, which is your client.
Right. So it it’s difficult, right? I I’ve been brought in in the past where, hey, listen, I have a mod. It you were not the consultant that wrote the spec, but I just can’t get a hold of that that person or that group. I just I don’t know. I’m being billed. I don’t know if they’ve done the work. Can you come in? Right. So we come in and we just say, look, send us the contract, send us the scope, and we’ll ensure that what was signed upon and agreed to, you that you’re getting it, right?
And I think as long as you approach it, you know, both with the client and the contractor as just, hey, look, this is the approach. I’m not coming in to beat anybody up or beat anybody down. I’m gonna go to what was agreed upon by both parties, generally works out. Generally does, right?
Matt Allred (13:57)
Yeah,
yeah. No, I agree. I I’m just curious, you know, some of these people, you know, maybe they maybe they like say buy the building. What’s dollars wise, what’s the most expensive mistake you think you’ve seen?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (14:11)
Ooh. I mean, great question. I mean it’s certainly certainly we’ve seen multi million dollar scenarios. And and and quite frankly, it’s just i it’s I don’t even want to say it it’s not uneducated, it’s uninformed, right? So it’s it’s making it’s making some assumptions that
Matt Allred (14:30)
Sure, sure.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (14:36)
twenty twenty five pricing was the same as two thousand pricing. That you know, that we ⁓ we have clients all the time that as they’ve built they’ve built a budget. They knew that they were gonna have to modernize, but they are so under budgeted because they
Matt Allred (14:51)
Got a rule of
thumb, right? Well, I know twenty years ago when I got in this industry, you know X was the number. Use it.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (14:54)
Yes.
Correct.
Jose Perez (14:58)
Right.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (14:59)
So I would say a lot of it a lot of it’s been that. but I think to Jose’s earlier point, it’s it’s about understanding that situation, then coming up with creative solutions. Because there are creative solutions out there, ⁓ you know, from from a scaled back scope or a phased type ⁓ upgrade modernization to ⁓
you know, financing options to you know cash flow considerations to ⁓ so when when you peel back and and identify not just the elevator component, right? I I I say this all the time and I’m I’m going going off on a little bit of a tangent, but about five percent, ten percent of what we do actually has anything to do with elevators, right? It’s it’s
commercial, it’s it’s how do we work together to towards an end goal just happens to be elevators is the product. But it’s it’s really about navigating relationships, partnerships, and being creative about solutions to meet what the client needs.
Matt Allred (16:14)
Right, right. Yeah. Whether I mean it’s yeah, to your point, it’s a it’s a commercial building. We have to make it rentable. Well, part of that is making sure we have a functioning elevator so that you can actually earn money on this, you know, second, third, you know, on up the floors. So, ⁓ no, yeah, thank you. y when you talked about creativity, I was gonna have you kinda dig in and you started to kinda kinda hit that a little bit with, you know, maybe you phase it, maybe you do one at a time over the next umpteen years. but it feels like there’s there’s so
is some flexibility in there that, you know, I’m not a malt mod guy, so I I don’t know what what those options are, but
Jose Perez (16:51)
Yeah, I mean I I think Matt, like what what we’ve been seeing, I what I’ve been seeing, I I think specifically, I would say in the last eighteen ish months, right, is you kind of get w we get brought in a lot of times on the front end, hey, d do an audit, do an eval, give me a a a bill of health of what of what we have, right? And I can get this is very recent ⁓ a condo board where we came in and said, Hey, the elevators for what you have, right, they’re they’re being well maintained. However
Everything in this fifty plus high rise building in in like the heart of downtown, all of this stuff is obsolete. So we’re we’re kind of we’re on borrowed time here, right? And you get the look from management and and some of these board members like the like you have three heads. Well, we we didn’t know that. And the other one is like, well, we don’t we don’t have, you know, you you tell them, hey, you have to budget ⁓ four and a half, five million dollars. Well, we don’t have that.
Matt Allred (17:32)
Right.
Jose Perez (17:48)
I empathize and I get it, but doesn’t negate the fact that we have what we have, right? And so let’s get creative here and how can we address this, right? ⁓ what what we’ve been doing and quite frankly, have had success in doing is for some of the larger, bigger projects where funding might not be readily available at the moment. We have gone out, well, we’re, hey, we’ll solicit bids, right? We know the scope, we know what we need for code compliance and safety and all that. We will bid it and
Quite frankly, we’ve just kind of put it out with the contractors. Hey, listen, whoever wants a seat at this table ⁓ with this ownership group is going to be the group that comes back with with creative financing, right? And we originally, when I was on the contractor side, the the attitude was very much ⁓ well, we’re not a bank, right? For them to figure out. And
Matt Allred (18:43)
Understood.
Jose Perez (18:45)
Well, sure, that is that is true, right? You’re not a bank and we’re not asking the elevator contractors to be banks. But I think there is an argument for the right project, right? Hey, look, this is a nice project. These are good people to do business with. They just what can you offer?
And we’ve we we’ve seen, I mean, we’ve seen some examples where where one company offered 18 months, 0% financing, another one twenty f 22 months, right? So some will say, hey, instead of X amount down, give us 10 down, 10%, right? And then we can work in monthly payments, which I again kind of leads to that creativity. Hey, look, we know your need and we know what how important this is. Elevators are the lifeline of any building, whether it’s commercial or residential, right? So
Matt Allred (19:07)
Really? Wow.
Jose Perez (19:30)
⁓ to not have a plan, in my opinion, is just not acceptable. Like right, we had first is the facts and then how do we how do we turn these facts and and turn it into a cohesive plan that we can at least show progress, right? So ⁓ I think that’s one good recent example of of some
Matt Allred (19:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. I mean,
the i again, it’s creative, but it but it’s offering the the contractors an opportunity to come to to the table with some creative options and and be willing to, you know, if you want to play here, what can you do? And yeah, it kind of opens opens it up in that way, which I really like that. so I’m just gonna quick plug to our our audience. ⁓ you know, have you ever inherited a a major elevator problem? If you
Jose Perez (19:59)
Yeah. Right.
Matt Allred (20:14)
If you have, if you want to talk about it, go ahead and throw it in the chat and we’ll we’ll revisit here in a minute. but I really like yeah, like what you’re saying. I mean, it sounds like it’s ⁓ you know, you’re there kind of helping helping both sides come together in a way that that could make it possible. ⁓ again, the kind of the analogy for me is, you know, maybe they’re driving a Studebaker ⁓ Studebaker and and you know what? If that engine goes out, if the you know, nothing’s gonna fit, right? That’s what you’re saying when it’s
you know, obsolete, correct? Is that there’s there’s just no way to replace these parts.
Jose Perez (20:48)
Right. Yeah, and I I think another ⁓ Matt kinda alluded it to it earlier, but sometimes the answer is isn’t hey, you have
Five elevators in this bank, right? And it’s a commercial building or what have you. But realistically, you probably don’t need five. You ⁓ commercial buildings, as we all know, the landscape today is a lot different than you know, five, six years ago, right? So maybe maybe we just if we modernize these, we could probably get the same traffic flow of you know, with three or four, right? And so we kind of come in and and offer that. I literally this morning I was at a building and they have, you know, groups, right? Yeah, low, mid, and high, and it’s all the
same equipment but ⁓ there was there was really no plan just five minutes of talking to management and I was like okay here’s here’s a recommendation and I think it’s just a way to kind of chip at it and honestly Matt it’s just a a way to get the the wheels turning right what if we did one bank right we we upgrade that it shows commitment to the contractor that you’re willing to invest and and improve your vertical transportation but then on the flip side we can take
That old those old drives, those old controller boards, those old door operators, keep them to cannibalize on the other side, right? So it’s it’s not always a one size fit all and like this is how you have to do it. It’s hey, look, we can just let’s just focus here. We get in a good trusted contractor. Guess what? You’ll you’ll improve your vertical transportation because it’s modernized. Now we’ll have a a whole closet full of attic stock and
Matt Allred (22:07)
Wow.
Jose Perez (22:29)
it’s going to it’s going to make that contractor who is in there doing that you it’s going to keep them honest and candidly have them keep do incentivize them to keep doing a good job because they want to get the other two banks, right? So I think it’s just it’s a recipe for success. And if you if you pitch it right to management and to the contractors, it it it it generally works out.
Matt Allred (22:44)
For sure. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I I like that. That’s ⁓ it it’s smart and it and it definitely seems and it honestly it leads to our next ⁓ point, which is ⁓ elevator relationships with their contractor, right? Because what I’m hearing you say is hey, there’s a a better way to do this, let’s work together versus, you know, as adversaries. And I yeah, I’m just curious. I mean, we talked the other day about a company that was ready to spend four million dollars to to modernize.
Jose Perez (23:14)
Yes.
Matt Allred (23:24)
Just so they could get rid of their contractor. That about blew me away. I like, my gosh, they must hate those people. Tell talk about that, yeah.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (23:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I mean this this ⁓ on it’s it’s funny because it ⁓ this story meant ultimately less work for our firm, right? ⁓ meaning meaning less capital upgrades and less consulting needed. ⁓ but I c I still consider it one of my one of my favorite and most success it’s it’s a success story at the end of the day. So the the long and short
contractor had been in there for since inception, since ⁓ since installation. very proprietary equipment, so the the owner didn’t really have the option to go out to other vendors. ⁓ but that the the relationship had deteriorated.
very badly over time. ⁓ we did an evaluation and and ⁓ based upon the life cycle of the equipment, they’d probably have another seven to ten years of useful life. It’s still very well supported equipment. ⁓ but they were so ready to get rid of this particular contractor, they said, look, we want to modernize. So we started down that path. ⁓ but parallel to that, what I what I
Our approach was, hey, look, let’s bring in the incumbent contractor. Let’s do let’s understand the equipment. Let’s walk this together. Let’s put together a plan to improve the existing relationship. Because even if you end up severing ties, we still have a year or longer that we have to manage this relationship. So we did those two things parallel to each other. ⁓
Elevator bids came back in, they were very, very close to awarding to another contractor. So ⁓ the original contractor would not obviously they would have been left. No, they would have been out of the equation. ⁓ but over that six to eight months that we were working together on the service side with the incumbent contractor.
Matt Allred (25:26)
They weren’t even invited to the party, right? I mean
Matt Jackson (BEC) (25:42)
We were able to really turn things around. Callback and and it was everything from they weren’t getting regular PM service to now they are. We got ⁓ a laundry list of deficiency items corrected. ⁓ so callbacks are down. We started doing monthly cadence meetings with not only the property management team, but also the board. and really turned it to a point where
They they really like the contractor. And so prior to us awarding a four plus million dollar modernization, we said, Hey guys, you’ve got seven to ten years of reliable, useful life on this equipment. So all that said, we were able to defer the modernization at least another seven years. The contractor is in a better position now to earn that business when the time’s appropriate. The client is
ecstatic about how they’re the existing performance and relationship. And on top of that, we ended up doing a small upgrade on the door operating door equipment. So the contractor gets a you know a six figure plus repair work order.
Which the to im further improve operation. I mean, it’s just a just a really cool win-win win scenario for for all involved. And it does it doesn’t hurt that the the the client now thinks that we walk on water because we you know that that does it certainly doesn’t hurt. ⁓ so but the point is that’s a relationship that we will have for forever.
Matt Allred (27:19)
Yeah, yeah.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (27:24)
⁓ and of course we’ll do the modernization when the time’s appropriate. But man, if we can if we can work on building that relationship and and turn things around, that’s really what we’re about, is trying to build that partnership.
Matt Allred (27:37)
Yeah, I mean it sounds like it’s a huge win, certainly for the the building owner and and not having to, you know, spend four million dollars just to get rid of somebody. A huge win for the contractor. I mean, I have to ask though, did did the contractor know they were that close to losing that business? I mean, were they even aware?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (27:54)
No, I d I mean that’s that’s the funny part, right? And ⁓ I un unfortunately the contractors and and this is not meant to be general or or this isn’t meant to point to everybody, but I think there is a a an overarching statement that sometimes they fail to look in the mirror and really look at the the picture. and that ca that goes from, you know
Hey, they’re just running running service calls and somebody’s not really watching. Hey, what’s the what’s what are the trends that are happening? What are the things that we can be doing to reduce callbacks, et cetera? So I think there’s some of that, but but it’s also I think oftentimes we see a blindness to the actual relationship that they have with their client. You can call and and say, ⁓ hey, how what’s your
What’s your connection here? And they’ll be like, I know the manager, their name is X. So we’re obviously best friends. Well, you don’t you don’t really know the story, right? And ⁓ that can be a really that can be a
Matt Allred (28:53)
Right.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (29:03)
I enjoy having that conversation, but sometimes that can be difficult because the contractors oftentimes think that they’re in a better situation or in a better relationship than they really are. And and obviously when we’re having those conversations with the client, the owner, the property manager, they’re they’re filling us in on the the real situation from their perspective. And oftentimes it tells two very different stories.
Matt Allred (29:14)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Jose, what’s your experience with this? And I’m curious, you know, how how do these relationships break down and how how can the the you know, the elevator contractor, I guess, be be a little more ⁓ attuned to what customers really need?
Jose Perez (29:47)
Okay. I I think this is a hill that I will die on, Matt. And it and it’s so it’s so, in my opinion, it’s so easy. ⁓ but what when I get I get asked a lot, right, who ⁓ who is the best or or what is the best or what you know, for me, what separates and what differentiates is very is communication. Like candidly just communicating and what what do I mean by that? It’s not necessarily giving me a call every week or whatever. It’s just
Matt Jackson (BEC) (29:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jose Perez (30:18)
Elevators, when they’re running, it’s quiet, right? But they ⁓ they break down loudly. And and what I mean by that is when when it’s downright, you’re gonna hear yelling and screaming from exact, right? So in those instances, like having a a partner, right, a vendor that communicates clearly, hey, this is the issue, right? Or or even, hey, we don’t know what the issue is yet, but we’re digging into it.
Matt Allred (30:28)
Everybody knows it, right?
Jose Perez (30:46)
It is goes above and beyond in my opinion. And I don’t think that’s hard. And I I tell this to you know, I often get asked sometimes to like, Hey, we have a new guy coming in. Would you mind ch chatting with them? He or her, whatever. And I almost tell everybody the same thing. It just overcommunicate, especially in the beginning, right? Even if the update is, Hey, I don’t have an update, it it means the world to most people just having that it makes you feel like, Hey, you have not forgotten about me. Hey, your elevator’s still down.
I recognize that and I’m still working on it. Right. So I think that’s at the end of the day, communication is is huge. And what does communication lead to? It’s just trust. Right. Hey, if you’re I end you generally just end up trusting somebody that comes up. And I’ll give you I’ll I’ll put it this way, Matt. When I was a contractor, I had elevator mechanics, some that were soup the brightest crayon in the box, but they just had a personality of a shoe.
And then I had guys that couldn’t fix much, but they were super outgoing, you know, right, communicated. And most of the time, right, the people will gravitate towards the the guy that is there and communicating with them, right? So I think that goes a long way in making people feel heard, and that ultimately leads to trust, right? Vendors react and and and good vendors communicate and and follow through.
Matt Allred (31:44)
Sure.
Yeah, yeah. I’m
Jose Perez (32:13)
I guess is the best way to put it.
Matt Allred (32:13)
Yeah. No,
I love it. I love it. And you the way you said just trust, I was like, wow, trust is gold, right? Trust is is so valuable. And and honestly, I see that a lot in my work, right? Just just being willing to communicate, willing to respond and say, hey, you know, I got your message. Maybe I’m a vacation. Maybe it’s going to be a couple weeks, but I I care enough about you. And I think that’s really the message, right? The that trust is all about, do you care enough about me to respect me as a human? And
Jose Perez (32:38)
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Matt Allred (32:43)
And respond and w whatever the answer is, right? If I can’t get a hold of you, if you won’t respond, you obviously don’t care about the relationship. You don’t care about me, you don’t care about my elevators, you don’t care, you know, and and I have to move on, I think is the message that people start to to believe.
Jose Perez (32:59)
A hundred percent. And and I think I was I was guilty of this when I was younger and you know, the first few years of my career, I always wanted to be the guy that gave the good news. Hey, I have your part, or hey, we’re gonna be out there this day, right? But you kind of dreaded giving the the bad news, right? Hey, I know I told you I’d be here this day, but we have to push it, whatever, right? Whatever it could be a million different things. But at the end of the day, I you have to push past that and just people will respect ⁓ generally somebody that comes.
out and just s says the truth. Like I said earlier, good, bad, or indifferent. And, you know, just shows that you empathize and that you care. And most people respect that.
Matt Allred (33:37)
Yeah, yeah. absolutely. Yeah. The the care, the the trust. I mean, if you don’t have the trust, it’s more like, well, this this person’s a vendor, right? But if you do have the trust, then no, this is a trusted partner. This is somebody that that I can rely on. And as as soon as you can’t be relied on, well, then you burn that that bridge of trust. So yeah, that’s huge. That’s huge. So it’s interesting. I’ve got a a friend that’s ⁓ he’s like a regional manager for a very large big box ⁓ store in the East. And ⁓ well
Jose Perez (33:47)
For sure.
Yeah. That
Matt Allred (34:06)
It’s a it’s a region, right? But they’ve got multiple escalators. And and he called me, you know, a couple of years ago or whatever, but he’s like, Who do you know that works on escalators? Right, right. I’m like, Well, you know, tell me what you got, right? I don’t I said, I know people, I can make some phone calls, whatever. He’s like, I’m about to pull all my hairs out because every time I call this this company, they won’t respond. Or if they finally do, they’re just charging me. He’s like, I just want it to work, right? I I can’t make sales if my escalator isn’t working. He actually went and and did ⁓ you know, prepare.
basically submitted a bid for a new escalator, right? Kind of like this four million dollar mod. He’s like, I just want a new escalator because I’m so sick of this company. He he didn’t get approval for it, but it was well over a million dollars for just one location. But he was that upset that he couldn’t get it going. And I’m like, yeah, I I hear you, man. This is this is big. So I ⁓ one of our one of our listeners here has said it always comes back to building a relationship and communicating well. Communication and trust are key, which exactly exactly what you guys said.
And ⁓ yeah, just just a little bit crazy. So ⁓ I I do want to ask the ⁓ the the audience as well, you know, what matters most? If you want to pop that in the chat, go ahead and do that. ⁓ before we hop into this next section though, I do have a question here from one of our listeners just saying, ⁓ you know, back to the budgets. Is there a formula or strategy that y’all would would recommend so these budgets aren’t
so shocking when it comes time to make changes. I mean, how do you how do you keep up with inflation? I think is part of what they’re asking.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (35:39)
Yeah. so there’s not a real good hard fast rule, but what I would say is I mean, whether whether it’s us or you know, any of the other many consulting firms out there, I think it it’s worth having a conversation with. I ⁓ but but even even going and you know having the discussion with your service provider, ⁓
You know, th I guess maybe the good or bad, right? They’re they’re typically when they throw a budget, it it is quote unquote budget pricing, so it’s gonna be a little inflated, which gives you a l a little room. I just quite frankly, I think so many people ’cause for for a long time, even though cost w went up, the pricing remained the same, meaning ⁓ margins seemed to
Matt Allred (36:33)
Suffered, huh?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (36:34)
tr get
tighter and tighter because of the increased competition, all of that. So elevator pricing stayed fairly stagnant for a long period of time. And that’s that’s both modernization and just your regular service agreement. I think now now that ⁓
And that’s certain now is certainly inf inflated because the costs have gone significantly up. And so you know, even having the conversation with the elevate your your existing service provider, that’s valuable to at least get you in the in the right ballpark.
Matt Allred (37:07)
Kind of a kind of a first step. And then and it yeah, depending on I guess how how knowledgeable how how current you are in the industry, you you may need an outside opinion because if you’re not in it all that often, right, you just may not know. So, ⁓ well let’s talk just a minute about contracts, ⁓ modernization, ⁓ some owner flexibility. I’m I’m curious, you know, we we’ve talked a little bit about ⁓
Matt Jackson (BEC) (37:21)
I think that’s correct.
Matt Allred (37:34)
you know, elevator service contracts. And why why would you say those are so difficult? Cause I again I don’t know personally, but I but I hear people talking about them all the time.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (37:43)
Yeah. So here here’s the ⁓ the quick tip of the day is and and I don’t mean this to speak disparagingly on a any contractor, right? But as a general rule of thumb, I would encourage any owner, property manager, do not sign an elevator company’s service agreement.
Right. And it’s no different than, you know, we go and buy something. If you if you get a get a vendor’s contract, it’s good generally gonna start in their favor, right? So unless you’re really going back and negotiating terms and you’ve got an attorney retained, ⁓ it’s gonna be in their favor. The the challenge, you know, service agreements, the standard for
forever has been, hey, here’s a term and then it auto renews and if you don’t give notice, you know, a hundred and twenty days prior to an expiration date, then it’s gonna auto renew for a a similar term. So, you know, we see these service agreements that have rolled over three and four times that are twenty or thirty years old. Well the
Matt Allred (38:51)
And they’ve probably
tried to get out of it ten times and they keep missing the date.
Jose Perez (38:54)
Right.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (38:54)
Correct.
And you know, but but the industry has changed, ⁓ in a lot of ways. ⁓ and so the language from twenty years ago really is not relevant to today, right? ⁓ because equipment types and components have changed. ⁓ the frequency of maintenance likely the the needed frequency has changed. ⁓ you know, so ⁓ in general terms, ⁓
You know, again going back to it, hey, one of the one piece of advice we give is don’t sign an elevator company’s agreement. You need to have a conversation with somebody, you know, that can can speak the language on your behalf. Make sure that you have a structured agreement that fits your needs, not the contractor’s needs.
Matt Allred (39:44)
What hearing you say is is for example, if they’re working with you, you’re going to say, no, don’t sign that. Let me hand you one that we’ve written, that we understand what’s in it. And it really does put the the kind of the ownership to to borrow that word back in the owner’s hands, right? It’s it instead of, you know, because you’re not signing their paper, you’re not surprised by certain difficult things that you that five, ten, thirty years down the road, you’re still beating yourself up about and can know what’s in it.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (40:00)
You’ve got it.
Yeah. Well, I’ll give
I’ll give you just in in some of the some of the language, right? So here’s a a typical con elevator service agreement will read, we will regularly, regularly or systematically maintain your equipment. Well, if somebody can define what that means, I I would love to know, right? It’d be ⁓ the the whole point is, you know, it it’s this the lack of specificity is intentional, right? Because if they don’t show up this month.
Matt Allred (40:28)
Ha ha ha.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (40:40)
or next month or for the next six months, it still falls in a regular and systematic, right? Versus having some level of accountability. And you know, the we have this conversation with contractors all the time. Con most contractors do not mind agreeing to a consultant type scope of work. Okay. And ⁓ and
Believe it or not, it actually in a lot of ways makes their life easier because when somebody tries to shrink a route or expand a route, so say a you know, a a mechanic’s got a hundred and twenty pieces of equipment and now they’re trying to add in another, you know, third of a route in there. Now when you’re looking at it, they can say, Hey, look, no, I have to be at these locations every month. It’s
contractual it’s a contractual obligation. So it gives them the the pushback to try to ensure that they’re able to do the right thing. At the end of the day, and I think I think we can all agree, generally speaking, people want to do the right thing. Right? it’s it’s the internal, sometimes external pressures that force people’s hand to get away from what they might view to be the right thing. And so when we’re
Matt Allred (41:49)
Sure, sure, agreed.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (42:03)
preparing a, you know, a service agreement for somebody and we put in this the specific KPIs in there, it allows them to much ⁓ more easily manage their portfolio, one, and it gives them the ability to push back on those internal pressures that prevent them from doing so.
Matt Allred (42:23)
For sure. They’re gonna be held accountable, right? If if it’s on your paper and here’s here’s what you have to do. So give me, ⁓ maybe Jose you can speak to this. what what are two or three things that are different about your paper versus a con a contractor’s paper? How would you show up differently? Yeah.
Jose Perez (42:37)
Yeah.
So I I th you know, one reason, Matt, that I came and and joined Blackstone as a whole, right? Was I think it it’s something I’m really proud of is ⁓ I can sleep well at night because y this whole the whole company is just based on relationships and and doing the right thing and having a level playing field. And and that goes for not just our clients but also the contractors, right? I was a contractor. I know j like what it is to have
a consultant or or just you know a a partner that doesn’t care, right? And so I think that’s something that I’m really proud of is like, look, yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna write your maintenance agreement for you, Mr. Client, but at the same time, we want it to be fair to the other party, right? And I I can give you a quick story. this was within the last 18 months or so. I had a client, they ended up switching providers. That provider had been there in
Matt Allred (43:25)
Sure. Yeah.
Jose Perez (43:36)
The building for about a year. Older equipment, call it 20, 22-ish years old. And then they kind of came back about a year in and said, Hey, you know, here’s here’s a proposal for some machine work. And it was a six-figure dollar amount, right? Went met owners like, what the heck? Right. Met with the owner, really nice older gentleman. And he was, Jose, do you think that they’re just losing their their their guns here? Like, are they just in the red here? I go, I have no idea. But if you
Do you wanna be a good partner? Absolutely. I think technically all of this is the way the contract is written is covered, right? Now, if we do this, they if they’re not losing their butts now, they’re gonna be losing their butts, right? And that’s not a recipe for success on for the contractor, right? So you wanna be a good partner? We’ll split this up, labor a material, right? And we did. And it it came out where the material cost was somewhere in like the thirty thousand dollar ballpark. And I said if
Matt Allred (44:33)
wow.
Jose Perez (44:34)
If you want to be a good partner, you would eat that. And he did. Right. And and it I think when we sat down with that contractor and we said, listen, listen, technically this is all covered, right? But you know, we want to show good faith and manage ownership is willing to eat X amount. Right away, the option is like done. Right. And and I they they appreciated that we were willing to step up for them, right? And we appreciated that the owner.
Matt Allred (44:54)
Wow.
Jose Perez (45:03)
understood and recognized that. So I I think to Matt’s point earlier, right, we want to build the contract to not only level the playing field for the client, but also be fair to the contractor because they’re a a business and they’re not in this for ⁓ d to do things for nothing, right? So we need to make sure that they do make a buck, but it has to be a fair buck, right? And and in those one offs where things come up and and you you just talk through it and
generally that has gone very well for me and I think for Matt as well. And I think that that speaks to why we’ve had such great success in in the last you know few years with the company. ⁓ truly I do.
Matt Allred (45:45)
Yeah.
Yeah. No, I I really like that. I I ⁓ just again from people I talk to, right, that there are times when when these relationships are really adversarial, you know, kinda like, you know, hey, I’m gonna get one over on you and so you don’t get one over on me. ⁓ but what I’m hearing you guys say is is hey, if we approach this with a win win win attitude and we we make sure everybody’s doing good work and they’re getting paid for their work and you know, that there’s no reason w anybody has to walk away a loser.
Jose Perez (45:56)
Hundred percent.
Matt Allred (46:14)
There’s no reason anybody has to to feel like they got, you know, beaten and and kicked out of the curb. No, it’s, you know, we’ve all got something to offer here. Let’s ⁓ let’s just meet each other and be good about it.
Jose Perez (46:15)
Yes.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (46:15)
Correct.
Jose Perez (46:26)
Yeah, I I gave
⁓ I gave a presentation about a yeah, a year and a half or so ago at the Chicago Elevator Association meeting, which is which is just to contractors in the Chicago market, right? And my biggest pitch, I said, you know, how many people here raise your hand, view consultants as the elevator police, right? And everybody rose their hand and and I go, I get it, right? I that’s that’s how I viewed consultants when I was a contractor. I’m here to to try and tell you that.
Matt Allred (46:37)
Sure, right.
Jose Perez (46:53)
That’s not how I want you to see me. I want you to see me as a partner, right? And at the end of the day, ⁓ if you if if if we’re on your short list of trusted consultants, right, and and if you’re doing a good job, right, there’s no reason for us to make you look bad, right? I mean, I’ve I’ve gone into buildings where, hey, look, there’s this these are some areas where we can spend some time and and we can improve, but at the same time, hey, your your equipment’s running well, however, it’s 12 years old.
those drives are probably gonna be failing soon. Maybe you should buy a spare one or two, right? And then that’s that’s a proposal that the the incumbent didn’t have, you know, a few hours before. So I think when you take that approach, I don’t most people are very receptive to it and they’re like, yeah, that makes total sense, right?
Matt Allred (47:41)
Well, again, it kind of speaks to trusted partner, right? You you know, if the contractor’s a trusted partner, great. But but you know, even people sometimes with a, you know, they say I’ve got to need a root canal. Well, I want a second opinion, right? You’re kind of coming in there with with ⁓ an opportunity to to really kind of bring the two together and say, Yeah, you really do need a root canal in this case. ⁓ so ⁓ I wanna open this up for some audience questions, you know, just call it ask the consultants and ⁓
Jose Perez (47:54)
For sure.
Matt Allred (48:11)
I’ve got a few of my own if if we don’t get a few ⁓ questions popping in and but just wanna invite anybody that’s listening out there to to throw something in the chat. and I guess let me just start with one of mine though. What’s what’s the biggest mistake owners make from your perspective?
Jose Perez (48:31)
⁓ okay, I think this one’s very for me at least it’s very ⁓ I see it all the time is you go into a building and you’re looking and it’s very easy to to overlook elevators. Hey, it’s running. You know, a running elevator to sum it up, it does not mean a clean bill of health, right? Or hey, we just upgraded these elevators and you go and it’s like, they put a new ceiling and new walls. But but under the hood, right, is you have a nineteen ninety whatever, right?
Matt Allred (48:51)
Right.
Jose Perez (49:00)
And it’s like, ⁓ it it’s it’s exactly painted blue, call it new, right? Is is is how they say. So I think that is a lot of d don’t wait too long and just do a little bit of due diligence ⁓ in the front end will save you you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions in some instances. I think is very an obvious thing that I see all the time.
Matt Allred (49:01)
It’s like a new paint job, right? It’s like, hey, it’s brand new.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (49:03)
Yeah.
Matt Allred (49:23)
Yeah. Yeah. So one of our one of our listeners is saying on that point, you don’t typically see all inclusive contracts with building services, i.e. HVAC, plumbing, fire systems. Why does the market expect full coverage, hoist ropes, machine repair in elevator contracts, but does not want to necessarily pay for it? Do you see contract scopes changing with more exclusions, but more transparency on costs agreed upon mark and agreed upon markup?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (49:50)
Yeah, so that’s a it’s a great question and I think ⁓ quite quite frankly this the the question makes it makes a lot of sense, right, in a lot of ways. Now, you know, I think as an industry,
Quite frankly, it’s a it’s a you know, this is way the way it’s been done forever. So in a lot of ways our industry is still very antiquated, right? It’s it’s how we’ve done it forever. This is how we’re gonna keep doing it, right? ⁓ I will tell you that ⁓
Matt Allred (50:17)
Okay. Some history.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (50:27)
When when a contractor excludes certain things, right, I don’t necessarily I don’t red flag that and say, my god, we’re not considering this person, right? I think that it’s a it op it opens up some discussion with the client, ⁓ to have to have a a real firm expectation of what the contract should or should not cover. ⁓ but but I ⁓
But the other thing that’s mentioned in here is more transparency on costs and markup, right? Well, I, you know, right now, without disclosing too much, I mean it’s a the repair, service and repair, it’s a high margin business. Okay. And while that’s that’s fine if if somebody said, Hey, look, we’re gonna exclude hoist ropes, but when they have to be re replaced,
we will structure it in XYZ manner, meaning, hey, this material or this is our flat labor rate, this is our flat material cost plus markup. I think then you can have a much more intelligent conversation, a meaningful conversation with the end user. I will tell you that there are I do know that there are some people that sit in our shoes that would dismiss and throw that out. ⁓ I share the the overall concern
about this. I mean, you know, to replace a set of hoist cables could be eighty thousand dollars in cost. And and for an elevator that they’re they’re paying a thousand dollars a month for in a five year term, that just doesn’t make any sense. Right. So it it becomes hey we gotta hedge our bets. So what I’m not saying is for the contractors that are out there listening, g exclude everything and let’s ⁓
But but I do think there is an opportunity for dialogue and communication. And what I can promise is that we’re not just just missing that approach. ⁓ I think it’s it’s something that we have seen the industry start to shift and we are starting to see more of these types of call it exclusions, clarifications. But I think being able to then define what does that look like if those excluded or
⁓ components need to be addressed, having that really clear is is the path forward.
Matt Allred (52:55)
Yeah. Well and it sounds like you you would have to have a a custom agreement if if and some awareness. I l I love the the point here about transparency, right? Just just kind of opening up a little bit and coming to the table and saying, hey, here’s here’s what we think could happen. Here’s what we you know, what we want to exclude or don’t want to exclude, and let’s let’s go down the road being aware. I I think the awareness piece is just from what I hear, again, you know, that that customers that s sign agreements and
I don’t know if this is true, but I heard from somebody certain agreements that they could never get out of. I’m like, how is that possible? You know, that’s that’s not transparent and it’s certainly not ⁓ you know, sitting at the table and saying, Hey, let’s let’s work together for a a win-win. So yeah. What what do you say is the biggest misconception about modernization?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (53:29)
Yeah.
Jose Perez (53:31)
Yeah.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (53:40)
Correct.
Jose Perez (53:50)
Well I could I could chime in, I guess really it it’s it it’s not it’s not just ⁓ making the elevator new, right? Like I I have this ⁓ and what I say by that is like like like visually and aesthetically new, right? I mean I I can’t tell you, Matt, how in the beginning of my consulting career I I’d go in and say, Hey, it’s gonna cost you X, right? And then you have a board or a a commercial client’s like, we just spent
Matt Allred (53:53)
Yeah, go ahead.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (53:54)
Yeah, go for it.
Jose Perez (54:17)
half a million dollars and all we got was new buttons. And it’s like, well no, because it most of the stuff when you do a mod, right, is I I call it it’s under the hood, right? a majority of it, right? You the everyday rider is not going to see, right? So ⁓ I think
Matt Allred (54:20)
Ha ha.
Sure. Sure.
Or even
feel. You can’t rev it rev the engine and ⁓ listen to a hum.
Jose Perez (54:35)
For sure. Yeah,
Matt Jackson (BEC) (54:37)
Yeah.
Jose Perez (54:38)
but you know, at the same time, right? I I my personal approach is like a modernization should never be fear-based. It should it should be a strategic approach, right? So I think ⁓ letting everybody know, hey, look, if you’re looking to this is one thing we do on all our reports, right? If if if it is a modernization candidate, like, hey, this is what you what this scope this budget number is for this b scope, right? Now please note it doesn’t include
aesthetically sprucing up your elevator if you’d like to do that, budget an additional Y approximately, right? And I think you just have that conversation, right? It is not a code required thing that you make your elevator more aesthetically pleasing when you mod, right? However
If you don’t do that, you’re more than likely you’re gonna have some tenants or some residents or whatever say, Hey, what the heck did we spend all this money on? So it’s just a conversation to have, right? I think that’s one of the the bigger ones I see, right? It’s like, ⁓ we did this and all we got buttons. Is no, there’s a lot of buttons, right?
Matt Allred (55:39)
It’s
hard to know. Yeah. So so we’re almost out of time. I just want to throw a few rapid fire questions at you guys. So like one or two answer responses as we wrap up. and I’ll start with you, Matt. We’ll just kind of bounce between you and Matt and Jose, but ⁓ biggest elevator misconception.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (55:54)
Right.
Wow, that’s it’s supposed to be rapid fire, huh? I mean
Matt Allred (56:05)
In theory.
Jose Perez (56:08)
If it’s running today
it’s healthy. I I right. I mean that’s that’s one. Right. I mean I think.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (56:12)
Yeah.
Matt Allred (56:13)
Okay.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (56:14)
Yeah, I think that’s fair.
Matt Allred (56:14)
Most overlooked building risk.
Jose Perez (56:22)
obsolete equipment hiding behind a pretty elevator. I I think ⁓ is is is one. Trying to be rapid here.
Matt Allred (56:29)
Okay. Yeah.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (56:30)
Or say or or
because it’s brand new, you’re good.
Jose Perez (56:34)
Yes. Yeah, that’s a good one. That’s a really good one. Hey, I just modded two years ago. I I’m I’m fine. I don’t need any. I’m good. Yeah.
Matt Allred (56:42)
Right. One thing owners
should ask contractors.
Jose Perez (56:48)
What’s your retention rate?
Matt Allred (56:50)
Hm. Okay. One thing contractors should understand about owners.
Jose Perez (56:58)
Not every owner is created the same. ⁓ so it in my experience, contract all the time, right? My my my elevator mechanic would be like, they need a mod. And it that is such an easy answer for an elevator mechanic in the field, like, just spend the money and do that. But guess what? Not every owner has that ⁓ that money stashed away, right? So it’s navigating the complexities of hey, what what these owners are gonna do with with their buildings and assets, right?
Matt Allred (57:27)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. most abused word in the industry.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (57:33)
Obsolescence.
Jose Perez (57:33)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Matt Allred (57:37)
⁓ modernize early or push equipment longer?
Jose Perez (57:43)
that one’s tough. I th I can’t you can’t do either blindly, I think, but ⁓ gotta evaluate, right?
Matt Jackson (BEC) (57:48)
Yeah, it it it depends. this the the simple answer is it depends. It depends on the existing make and model, ⁓ knowing what equipment’s there to support it. ⁓
Matt Allred (58:03)
Yeah. Good. So so last question here. ⁓ what’s the most important trait of a trusted advisor?
Jose Perez (58:14)
I’m gonna repeat what I’ve already said. Objectivity and creativity, in my opinion.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (58:20)
Transparency and communication.
Matt Allred (58:23)
Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. So and I I think you guys have done a great job just really talking about, you know, parties coming together, building trust, ⁓ trying to figure out what building owners really want and need. And that’s really one of the pieces I was, you know, wanted to to get at is rather than losing millions of dollars, right? Being able to to have enough communication, enough of trusted partners, whatever to be able to to fix ⁓ you know, whatever comes. So ⁓
I I do believe at the end of the day that industry works best when owners, consultants, contractors stop treating each other like opponents, start acting like long term partners. And I appreciate you being on here today. It’s been a lot of fun.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (59:05)
Yeah. Thanks, Matt.
Jose Perez (59:05)
Thanks for having us, man.
Matt Allred (59:06)
Thank you. Good luck to you as you keep building your business.
Jose Perez (59:09)
Appreciate it. Take care.
Matt Jackson (BEC) (59:09)
Appreciate it.